Building and seizing opportunities in coaching, with Alejandro Sánchez

Alex Sánchez (: 00:00

the brain, what is the function of our brain, is trying to create a narrative that has internal and external sense, internal and external coordination, you know? And when we have mental problems is when the internal history that we are explaining to ourselves.

related to the external history that we are explaining to people around us is unbalanced, is not coordinated. And this is where stress, anxiety, depressions come. When we feel that what we are offering outside is far away, is not connected with the things that we have inside,

And in that sense, our brain, our mind have the capacity to create everything we want.

Mark Carroll (: 00:45

Hi everyone, welcome to this episode of Labours of Sports Coaching. In today's episode I was joined by Alejandro Sanchez who is a UEFA Pro Licence holder, a football coach turned educator, turned now football director, working in the Middle East at the moment. Having had an extremely long and high quality career across Spain.

most notably working within Real Madrid's football club and being a director for the Masters programme that runs at Universidad de Europea. We talk about Alejandro's career trajectory and some of the lessons that he's learned. And it's a really interesting conversation because it did very much go away from a lot of sort of cliches that you hear and does touch on a lot of the realities.

both in terms of personal branding, but how also people sometimes get discouraged and disillusioned by where they're currently at in their own career trajectory, often because there's a misalignment. And we go almost philosophical with this, and a misalignment between internal and external. And we also touch upon things like international culture, football being a global market, but I would probably again extend that to...

other sports coaching markets and vocations within sports coaching. So we chat about all of that, today also talking a little bit about the role of project management within sport as a sort of stepping tone sometimes towards the next level in coaching and some of the requirements of that too. So really, really interesting conversation, very inspiring actually in a way just to hear from such a successful coach.

and to understand the nuance of how he created a niche for himself and what his philosophy of thought is that he carries with him in his everyday professional life. I think for many of us that are listening, there'll be a lot that you can take from this conversation regardless of where you're at in your own career journey. So with that, let's get into it.

Mark Carroll (: 03:09

So Alex, it's great to have you here, how are you to begin with?

Alex Sánchez (: 03:12

All good, thank you very much. Very happy because we have no winter in Saudi. It's always 28 degrees so we are fantastic.

Mark Carroll (: 03:21

I wish you hadn't said that because I think today's a high of maybe three degrees at the moment in Scotland. So it's a slightly different climate. Not too much rain, which is always a good one, at least for the present moment. So great. So I want to get into it with you, if you going to chat about obviously your career journey today and I think what we can maybe take from that both insofar as your knowledge around coaching, but also in terms of the evolution of your position into more of a project management role.

Alex Sánchez (: 03:26

Yeah.

Mark Carroll (: 03:50

across the different organizations that you've worked with. But let's rewind that a little bit and start to maybe, if you can maybe take us down the sort of journey you went on as a coach today. So in terms of if we can maybe chart, I know that's not an easy question to begin on, but if how could we maybe chart your development as a coach from day one to now, what have you been moving through in so far as learning experiences that you have had that perhaps listeners might be able to pay attention to?

just given the wealth of knowledge that you've accrued over the years and the experiences that you've had.

Alex Sánchez (: 04:20

So my case, in my case I knew really early that I wanted to become head coach. It kind of this adolescent 15, 16 years dream where you're asking to yourself, the school are starting to ask, guys, you need to start thinking about what do you want to develop as a professional career? And in my case, it was really quick.

It's going to be football, always football. I used to play at that time, more or less good level, always playing against Barcelona. I'm Real Madrid fan, so I was really always motivated to play against Barcelona, these kind of things. And I decided, yeah, I want to become coach. So the question is how I become the best coach.

in the world. The answer was the sports science. So let's go there to the bachelor, do sports science. And at the same time, obviously, you need to go to federations and develop WFAs license. At that time, when I started in Spain, we had only three levels of WFAs. That was WFB, WFA, and WFAPRO. So with 20 years old, I was already in the bachelor of sports science and I was developing my WFAs license. And at the same time,

I was not playing more as a football player or I used to play but in a really amateur level so kind of the progression in pro career as a player stopped so I started to coach with 20 years old I was like 19 20 years old in the first team you what you're nine you 10 years old at Ben Hamming was in one of my former clubs no so one of the goals that they put to myself was you need to study the bachelor you need to study the license and at the same time you need to be in all these

Mark Carroll (: 05:47

Mmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 05:58

of the academic process for understanding the different...

Mark Carroll (: 06:00

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 06:04

development stages of human beings through an academy process and this is what I did until the 26, 27 years old. I did that. I finished my bachelor in experience science. I developed the or I got the UEFA-B, the UEFA-A and at the same time I did U10, U11, U12, U13, U14, U16, I did all.

at the same time as we were speaking before, inside the different clubs I was in. And this was more related to kind of natural abilities, not because I was studying them in the sports science, because my of my pathways in the sports science was related to high performance, kind of understanding physiology and biomechanics. I love these kind of lectures.

lessons, know, because was really focusing in development or trying to understand the human body development, how to increase performance through increase the activity of the body of the players. But naturally skills looks that I had abilities, natural abilities to be in kind of management positions. I was a really organized guy. had kind of social abilities for trying to

Mark Carroll (: 06:51

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 07:13

or bring out, or if not the best, at least trying to encourage people around me. And I was all the time like managing sections, like manage the age between 10 and 14, or the academy director in the non-performant stage of the club. know, these kind of clubs that they have the social and the high performance. So I was coaching in the high performance, but managing the social aspect, know. Always working with kids, five, six, seven, always in these kind of projects.

Mark Carroll (: 07:37

Mm.

Alex Sánchez (: 07:42

And at some point, I did an Erasmus, I went to Italy. I did the same in Italy. I was with the U14, U13 in Italy. I was studying in Italy. I wanted to learn a different approach to the training process that obviously being in Spain, had the Spanish way of training. I went to Italy, developed that.

came back to Spain. At some point, some people called me to become teacher of the UEFA license. So I started to teach in the Catalonian federations, the UEFA license, UEFA-B and UEFA. And at that point, I was 27, 28, I realized analyzing the industry, the Tawai industry, football industry was really tough.

in the sense of trying to do the jump to professional. my career was good. I was really recognized in Barcelona and in Catalonia as a teacher, as a coach inside the clubs. But, yeah, I realized at that point that...

Mark Carroll (: 08:22

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 08:35

was really difficult becoming coach in first and second division. Main of the roles, naturally the industry is suffering for my players. This is something that at that time, at that time I didn't understand and it was like something that was giving me a lot of frustration in the sense of why a former player need to be, I need to have these kind of elite opportunities in B teams or straight senior teams while there is people that we are working a lot, they're studying a lot, doing bachelor.

Mark Carroll (: 08:37

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 09:04

doing taking the license, doing masters, moving around continents or cities or for trying to become and one guy that was only pro player with no background or knowledge now suddenly they are receiving this opportunity. This was frustrating me as a person and I decided that look I'm not able to or I'm

thought that it's going to be really difficult for me doing this professional jump to these professional categories, first and second division. And I discovered that the international project for Spanish coaches was going to be the easiest, or at least was going to be easier than staying in Spain trying to reach professional contracts or big contracts. And I tried to this second pathway in the sense of let's put myself in the position of getting some international contracts.

Mark Carroll (: 09:32

Hmm.

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 09:52

I got it. I got my first professional contract outside, was in Africa with 29 years old. It was a big one. The conditions moved to Angola. The conditions in Angola were really huge in terms of apartment, car, big salaries, really big conditions.

Mark Carroll (: 10:04

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 10:10

And from there, I want to continue internationally. From Angola I moved to the Middle East. The Middle East at that time, I'm speaking eight, nine years ago, started to grow as a region of the world that wanted to improve football projects. So was a really nice condition. And from there, I came back to Spain to Madrid.

Yeah, man, all the career, my international profile, you have been in European universities, so my international profile was fitting really well with European universities in terms of international profile, and I have been there many years.

Mark Carroll (: 10:29

Yeah.

Hmm.

And could we, maybe let's pause at the point where you've now reached university at the European, because there's a lot of really interesting things that have come out there just as you spoke about and what seems to come through to me is you seem to have found a way to leverage your skill set and apply it to more open markets in order to sort of progress a bit better with in coaching, or what's your thoughts on that? Because it's interesting, like you mentioned even the very fact that you've got a bit more of a

Alex Sánchez (: 11:00

Yeah

Mark Carroll (: 11:07

an educational background in sports science with physiology and biomechanics. The more common coach normally, don't really know, least in my experience, not a lot of coaches normally down the sports science route. It's more pedagogy, it's more what we assume to be more mainstream coaching related styles. But it's just, I would like to know what benefits did, it's just one leverage, think, if I'm correct, you might have brought to your career trajectory.

What leverage did having a sports science background, even if you're not going to work as a sports scientist or a strength and conditioning coach, how has that helped you being a football coach?

Alex Sánchez (: 11:42

So

for me, one important thing, when I was young and I was looking all coaches, I hate something and I didn't understand. People that they were working in different industries, I don't know.

in banks and finance and in what I don't know, bus driver, because here in Spain, coaches are doing all the different jobs in the world and then they are coaches in the afternoon. And for me it was like, I have no sense. So if I want to become coach, I need to study something related to that. And I want to transform coaching in my main activity. So I need to understand how I'm able to produce them. And for me the answer was the post-science because when...

Mark Carroll (: 11:59

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 12:25

For me, someone that want to become coach is like, how I'm able to become the best coach is like, I'm able to, the answer is what a coach does, no, usually. And what you need to be doing as a coach is improving performance level of player and obviously players play with their own body. So, and in that sense, the answer was in the sports science. When I finished sports science, I continue doing the same question.

Mark Carroll (: 12:40

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 12:49

So how am I able to continue improving the performance of my team? So at the moment, when I finished the bachelor, I understood that I was really good in terms of organizing the microcycling. I understood the load management. I understood how to bring gym and this is straight training to the players, to how to reduce injury processes. So really what mainly all physical coaches are doing, know, it's the science is a physical training. But in my case, I was thinking bigger, bigger or...

Mark Carroll (: 13:14

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 13:17

Wider than only becoming physical training was like, okay What was missing in this post science bachelor that can help me for being better? football coach

There was a part of technical tactical knowledge that obviously the Bachelor of Sports Science we did, but it was answered in the license. Welfare license is basically based on that, at least in its pay. It's basically based on technical tactical aspect. Now the approach, the reflection, the content of what is more football related. And my point was human behavior.

Mark Carroll (: 13:40

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 13:47

It's like how I'm able, now it's not the body, now I understand the body. The point is how I increase human behavior. And the answer to how to increase human behavior is psychology. It's There was no other way of finding this knowledge. And this is why my masters, did two after the patcheload, was based on that.

Mark Carroll (: 13:56

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 14:03

was on psychology, psychobiology, and neuroscience. And this is where I found all the knowledge, the strategies, the understanding of how the brain works. And after the Bachelor of Sports Sciences, I had how human body works, I understand the brain, and now I'm able to put both of them together. And at the same time, I discovered how poor 20 years ago,

Mark Carroll (: 14:04

Hmm

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 14:29

we're connected the knowledge related to human behavior or body behavior and mental brain behavior and this split is something that for me is not the word is scary it's not scary but it's surprising now with the knowledge I have how is for me kind of

Mark Carroll (: 14:45

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 14:48

all the content that we are teaching in this post-science will need to be changed, understanding that it's impossible to understand body behavior without mental brain behavior and the opposite, it's impossible to understand how our brain and mind works if you are not understanding the body. And I think that knowledge, the knowledge, it's really splitted in what we are doing in this post-science. So in my case, I needed to put all of these together and this helped me.

Mark Carroll (: 15:01

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 15:16

bring into the industry. Understand that if I wanted to be involved in football, choosing only one unique pathway, meet head coach, was going to be like what, 0.1 % of chances to have a long career?

Mark Carroll (: 15:25

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 15:33

was like, no way. So sometimes I will have the opportunity of being head coach, but sometimes maybe there's not going to be a bench for me. So I need to be accepting of the positions that my knowledge can help me. And in that sense, I have been physical trainer.

I have been a stage coordinator or manager. I have been academy director. I have been helping in the sporting direction, more related to general management of club. I have been in scouting processes. So I have been methodological director, more kind of developing, geotanic development programs. And in the past year, so I have been creating a master, I have been teaching. So, and the point of that was kind of understanding that it's really difficult and kind of the person

Mark Carroll (: 16:07

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 16:18

of possibilities from one non-professional player becoming or doing a career-only based in head coaching, for me, it's close to impossible. So, was kind of surviving in the industry. know, if you want to survive in the industry and want to always be in football, you need to be able to be adaptable in terms of doing many things inside the clubs.

Mark Carroll (: 16:29

Hmm.

Hmm.

Because I think there is a bit of a rhetoric, isn't there, around you need to be fully committed and have a very singular goal and singular purpose. But I think we need to maybe talk about statistics, you know, where it's just the likelihood of actually getting into that 1 % who do, you know, get to these really elite positions. I think it would serve the employer more than it serves you if you have such a narrow route.

in the way that you educate yourself or least in the way in which you could potentially get employability. Because it sounds like as well, well in the meantime you've got that singular focus. You've also made yourself extremely valuable to lots of different people in a way that as a means of moving forward or entering that sector in a different way perhaps.

Alex Sánchez (: 17:15

Yeah, for me?

For me,

something that I very early was, and it's going to be the message for my kids. So it's like, you are free to work in whatever industry you It's that for my kids, other messages like, you choose, as I did. I was lucky enough for having a family that told me, you choose. The point is,

What is, if there is a key, for me it's not existing, only one key, But if there is something really important that you need to achieve in your industry, is that for becoming like a good professional, having a long career, at the end winning good money, and blah, blah, blah, is a specialization. So it means you need to be always there. You cannot, as I was saying before, I was not understanding a head coach that in the morning was working in a bar.

Mark Carroll (: 18:02

you

Alex Sánchez (: 18:03

was

known. And my reality in Spain, our reality in Spain, Spanish coaches, is that we need to be working in other industries for winning enough money to survive as a coach. So for me was, okay, if I don't want to be in other industries that are putting me away on what is coaching, which industry is going to be helping me in being better coach? And for me the answer was fitness.

Mark Carroll (: 18:28

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 18:30

It's like, I'm going to be doing a sports science. I'm learning how the human body works. I'm going to be coach. What I can do out of coaching for winning money is personal training. It's being in the fitness world. It's being in gyms. It's being in... Because I took a lot of knowledge in the fitness industry that was really useful for coaching.

Mark Carroll (: 18:50

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 18:51

longer than coaching for what I'm doing nowadays in terms of professionalization. Something that the fitness industry have inside the sports context is that fitness industry is much more professionalized than the sports industry, at least in Spain.

Mark Carroll (: 19:06

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 19:07

So gyms,

fitness companies are much more professional in terms of salaries, terms of structures, in terms of professionals, in terms of learning, development processes. That football, football is really a matter.

Football in Spain is really a group of people that they love football if they want to be that. With no background, with no knowledge, with no interest of growing. Kind of always keeping these old myths of football, really tradition, really working in football because always in football have been working that sense. While fitness is the opposite. Fitness is innovation, technology, introduction, new trends in training, trying to, you know, the sales process, trying to bring more

Mark Carroll (: 19:21

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 19:50

memberships to the gym. There are many, many, many things in terms of professional strategies that sports was not doing and I learned because I needed to learn because I was working there only for winning money, that money that I was using for surviving in the sports, in football industry.

Mark Carroll (: 19:57

Hmm.

Does it offer the benefit as well of, I could imagine the experiences you've accrued from going into fitness and sports science and other industries, does it allow you to offer a better sense of what high performance actually is as well, I'd imagine? Because I think a coach's lens is sometimes because it often is very pedagogical or technical tap. It's not always, coaches mostly need to outsource to other people for the reason of they don't understand sports science. I wonder if it...

Alex Sánchez (: 20:23

Yeah, for sure.

Mark Carroll (: 20:37

your experience seems to teach me that if you learn enough at least to develop a working understanding of high performance at least it gives you a better starting point to really create something that is high performance.

Alex Sánchez (: 20:48

So for me, the big learning in the fitness industry was how poor, at least in Spain, saying, I'm speaking on the context, my context, how poor was the professionalism level of the clubs in my country? Was like, man, they just have no, I was very lucky at the same time because I was in the biggest fitness company in Catalonia. A company that was, it's a Catalonian company, but in the city of Barcelona they had.

25 years. So we had kind of global 100,000 memberships. It's a huge company with a huge social repercussion. And in that sense was kind of a multinational company. We had a lot of strategies, processes, operations that was like a huge international company. And we learned a lot. And when I was going to my industry, what I felt was my industry that was football, and I was seeing...

how the clubs were managed, how was the approach of the coaches to the training process, to being involved and blah, blah, was like.

Man, so people is not taking serious this industry. It's like this is kind of the hobby of people that at the same time they are winning money. That is the hobby. Really they care about being in the bank in the morning or being in their company doing whatever where they receive the big salary and then they come for 400 euros, 600 euros, 700 euros to coaching afternoons. And I'm speaking about the proclaps, semi-proclaps. So for me, what is the mess? What a mess of situation, no?

Mark Carroll (: 22:13

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 22:15

my case for my professional career I was different from that because it doesn't matter if I was winning 200 euros as a coach and I was winning 2,000 as a fitness training director because if someone was asking me which is your profession I was saying head coach.

I was saying football, not fitness. So it doesn't matter if I was spending in fitness 30 hours per week or 40 and 15 in coaching or 20 in coaching. My main career was coaching. So what I was doing is bringing all these professional aspects from fitness sector to football world that until maybe five, six, seven years ago in Spain was missing. In Spain was missing. Now Spain have changed. But it was not changed 20 years ago when I started to change like five, six years.

Mark Carroll (: 22:34

Hmm.

Hmm.

you

Alex Sánchez (: 23:04

ago but there's still a lot of lack of professionalism in the of the clubs involved in the industry.

Mark Carroll (: 23:08

Hmm.

But see the way that you have found quite a clever way of creating a narrative around yourself and really tell your story in a way that so clearly distinguishes you from other people. I always think, a lot of times, particularly we are in a football pathway, and it's the same for lot of other sports, where we're expected to go down the same route because you need the same accreditations and these sorts of things. So what often happens is everyone has the same story, in a sense.

And I just wonder, I see the benefits, I think, when I meet individuals like yourself, Alex, where they're able to tell a different story about themselves, because we all know similar things, but in interview panels, or how we can maybe, I don't know, market ourselves in our own personal brand, I suppose, it seems like it's the storytelling sort of narrative that seems to be really important, I think. Is there still maybe to learn? I don't know, because I see it come out quite clearly in the way you're able to.

tell us from the fitness and how you've combined that with neuroscience and all these other aspects and how important has that narrative been for you and how you create your own narrative or is it, am I missing that maybe, this a, what would you say, because I don't know if it, did your work talk.

Alex Sánchez (: 24:18

You are bringing,

you are bringing a key aspect Mark nowadays. You are bringing a key aspect. I'm not psychologist, I'm a sports scientist. But I did the master of psychology, the master in neuroscience and maybe PhD have been in psychology. In football but specialized in the area of psychology. I'm trying to understand psychology variables.

If I need to explain kind of briefly how brain and as a result of brain function, mind is organized and created. We human beings, individually, we are narrative, we are a mystery. This is what brain try to create for us not being crazy. So for me, a human being...

unconsciously trying to create the brain, what is the function of our brain, is trying to create a narrative that has internal and external sense, internal and external coordination, you know? And when we have mental problems is when the internal history that we are explaining to ourselves.

related to the external history that we are explaining to people around us is unbalanced, is not coordinated. And this is where stress, anxiety, depressions come. When we feel that what we are offering outside is far away, is not connected with the things that we have inside, what we want to our

And in that sense, our brain, our mind have the capacity to create everything we want. So in terms of creating a personality, we have the power to create whatever we want to be. It is not meaning that we are going to be achieving that. I'm not this kind of guy that believe that, no, if we imagine something, we are going to be able to be this something. Because this something need to be happening in a context, in a real context.

in a specific city, a specific country, in a specific culture, that sometimes there are things that are bigger than us that they are not giving us the opportunity. For example, I wanted to be head coach, Carlo Ancelotti winning the Champions League, and at some point I realized that I'm not going to be this kind of guy.

Mark Carroll (: 26:17

Mm-hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 26:35

I'm not going to be a head coach that I will be winning a Champions League. But this narrative of wanting to be a Carlo Ancelotti winning a Champions League made me, during many years, take some decisions that were fitting with this dream. So I have this personal goal, what I need to do to achieve this personal goal, so the decisions that I'm taking are fitting with the contextual or eventual situations that I'm living in.

Mark Carroll (: 26:40

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 27:02

they are fitting, I'm happy, I'm okay. At some point, the brain is always reevaluating these. It's like what I want to get, what decisions I'm taking, these decisions are putting me in a position of leaving the things that I want to leave here. At some point, the reevaluation that is happening always, the reevaluation is giving me a situation that tells, look, attention, that maybe you are not going to become carlincellot. What are you going to do?

Mark Carroll (: 27:17

you

Alex Sánchez (: 27:28

You need to kind of re-adapt, like you need to create a new narrative. It's like, okay, you need to accept that maybe something, this is not going to happen. What could happen? And for me, in that sense, I'm going to be speaking actual dreams. I'm an old guy, but I'm still believing dreams, No, so I accepted that, okay, I will not be Carlo Encelotti. But now, looking my career, my pathway, who I am now, okay, maybe I'm going to be able to win a Champions League, but I'm not going to be Encelotti.

Mark Carroll (: 27:31

Yeah.

Yeah.

you

Alex Sánchez (: 27:57

Maybe I will be the assistant coach of a former player that will help from a technical guy that has been in the football industry for many years. So now I can construct a new narrative. And the new narrative can fit with what is happening in my external life. It's like, okay, now I accept that I will not win as a Carlo Ancelotti main character, main protagonist of this career, but I can win as a guy that will help another guy that will win.

Mark Carroll (: 27:57

you

you

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 28:27

that will be the main and I will be the assistant. And being assistant is nice, I mean. So I create a new internal narrative where, look, you are not a former player, but your knowledge, you are becoming an expert, you have knowledge, you have abilities, you have this, your career is nice, you have all the nice things, you know? And it's all time this reevaluation and reconstruction of what is nice in your life. These nice things fit with the external thing that you are doing and you need to be all time balancing this. And I think this is what...

Mark Carroll (: 28:35

Yeah.

Alex Sánchez (: 28:56

This is the goal of our brain, creating a narrative that creates a balance between the internal goals plus the external history that people around us are looking at us. And this is what life, personal goal of life, for being stable and for being kind of self-determined as a human being.

Mark Carroll (: 29:09

Yeah.

Yeah, I love the way you've taken it. Initially, the way I was I was pitching that question, I was thinking more around the narrative that we sell to other people about ourselves and the skills we have and the value you have. But alongside that, what you've sort of positioned there is the need for consider the narrative you tell yourself, probably for your own wellbeing and for your own confidence to continue down a path that, I would wonder what you think. It does often seem like coaches are told that

unless you have a very specific vision of success, then your outcome isn't really success. And I think this is maybe a lesson on, you know, we can have rationality, but we can still be ambitious. So it's sort of like, if your success is always deemed by something you aren't in control of, you know, go to Champions League. Because there's so much celebrity in football that I think a lot of coaches embark on a career path in football that if they don't become the person that's on the news.

they see themselves as a failure, it's like, they be the reason, part of the reason why you might be hitting your head against the wall is that you're moving towards a space that you won't get access to just through the statistical probabilities, but you might get closer towards it if you redirect your path towards what you are good at, what you can do, and then from there all of sudden you kinda end up raising the roof a little bit in your career potential because that's an avenue that's less.

less charted upon because people assume it's not as lucrative or this or that, but it's also an open market and a market that's perhaps more niche in where all of a sudden you can cultivate skills that more people want and more people then all of a sudden want to talk to you around. It's just as interesting as you say that, a lot of the thoughts are coming out of my head.

Alex Sánchez (: 30:58

Yeah,

I like the reflections that you're doing. So obviously all these things that I have already explained related to how brain and what is the main goal of the brain function that is creating this narrative, obviously if we go to a business sector nowadays, you go to an MBA, it's transforming this concept that you were saying, personal brain.

Mark Carroll (: 31:16

Hmm.

Mmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 31:21

but this personal branding as a concept it's only the expression of this mental function and relating to the thing that you were saying now

The point is that people is not doing that. So I mean, I think, so the people don't understand that the main function of the brain is this, is creating this narrative. And you need to create this internal narrative inconsistency with the external activity that you are doing, not for having kind of a professional success, but you need to create that for personal development. So it's the goal of your brain.

and you cannot take out of the equation. It means the is organized for this self-development and the self-development is based on creating the narrative while you are living. What happened with many people? As I am saying, the narrative has sense when there is a balance between in and out. Many people, they don't focus in the balance or they only focus in the in.

Mark Carroll (: 31:59

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 32:23

or they only focus in the art. And when we go to the concept, these professional concepts of personal development, brand, personal brand, you were speaking before about the storytelling, the personal storytelling, personal brand. This for me is kind of picking up natural strategy of the brain that exists and using it kind of a non-humanistic way only as a professional strategy.

Mark Carroll (: 32:35

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 32:48

losing out of the sense of the process in the sense of the person, the professional understand that he need to create an image, but this image is not related to the internal things that he believes or thinks or want to create. It's only I'm doing and I created this personal brand because in the last MBA lesson, a professional told me to create a personal brand. But what's the sense of that? It's for selling me out. But what I'm selling out have internal sense, internal consistency with me.

Mark Carroll (: 33:15

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 33:16

they are not doing these kind of questions.

And if they are doing these kind of questions, they are not looking for the answers. And then you have a lot of people in our industry that they are looking for being in the industry, not for being in the industry itself, not because they want to be there, because the lights and the cameras, because they are so nice. Because there is, obviously there is a cognitive process inside of us that is called ego. That there is many people that they are in this side of the ego development process that is based on

Mark Carroll (: 33:21

No, no,

Alex Sánchez (: 33:44

I want people around me perceiving and feeling that I'm Why? Obviously, they will need to go, and this is a question for psychiatrists or psychologists, why the ego for human beings is so relevant. I understand that there is a point of what ego is bringing us to the sense of feeling, of living, of obviously it's kind of the tool of our brain to say, man, we are here.

Mark Carroll (: 33:51

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 34:10

I'm nothing, ego is kind of the opposite of nothing. But many people look this in the direction of, I want to be in the picture. Because being in the picture is what kind of, I'm scared of not being in the picture. It's not thinking more in the sense of why is the picture relevant? Why I want to be there? So, are they in the picture? Only for the opposite of not being. Because people is scared of not being. Not because, look.

Mark Carroll (: 34:11

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 34:37

In my case, for me, I'm the footballer, not for the picture. I'm a guy that has been lucky enough for being in really big or medium-big projects with the possibility of being in a lot of parties, ceremonies, and being the picture. But there are very few pictures of me when you Google my name. We are in an era that all of us, you can Google the name.

Mark Carroll (: 34:40

Hmm.

Mmm... Mmm...

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 34:57

The point

I think is because I did the natural process, not in the sense of the personal branding, that this new concept that is arising in the past year and obviously social media is pushing a lot with this concept of personal branding, but in the sense of internal personal development. Like I was kind of always interested of this in the sense of who I'm going to be. I was really early doing this kind of questions. I don't know why. As the people around me, it's like,

Mark Carroll (: 35:13

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmmmm

Alex Sánchez (: 35:24

Now that I'm old, it's really surprising some processes that I started very young with no reasons at all because I didn't have a big trauma. I grew up in a kind of regular family. We were not a rich family, but medium class family. mean, I had all things I needed. When I wanted more expensive things, my parents told me, and work, but you have all basic things covered. So I was kind of...

Nice guy, I was training, I used to love playing football but really early, for example, really early, I started to meditate, to go through mindfulness meditation or whatever and really early it's like 23, 24 years old and meditation for example for all people that do mindfulness and all that it's kind of really internal process where you are starting to do this kind of questions. Who do you want to be? Who you are? What have been your mistakes? Why do you feel this way? Really starting to do this reflection process on feelings, emotions.

Mark Carroll (: 36:00

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 36:20

anger, frustration and why I did that I don't know but really early I started in this process and now that I'm old I realized that people in western societies they are not doing this kind of process and now they like very much speaking about personal branding following strategies where look my image is important the clothes I wear how I speak how I move the hands how other people see me but if you look

Mark Carroll (: 36:24

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 36:47

All of these strategies are external strategies. You are never solving the question is who you are and who do you

Mark Carroll (: 36:51

Hmm.

Is there

a tension there, however, just to play devil's advocate a little bit here, like, just we're wanting that this is almost a perspective of outwards from the internal, but where does it then meet with, as we've alluded to earlier in the conversation about some of the realities of this sector? Because I always think, because in the same, I think there can be a degree which clubs can exploit value.

that people want to bring to themselves by just growing as an individual. And they do that and they almost leverage that to the employee, to the coach as a wage, as a payment in itself to make up for the fact that they pay horribly. So like, I wonder where the tension is between doing what you love and what you value and what you feel is integrated with the self and actually making sure at the same time that you're in a location that's profitable.

that's sustainable for yourself, for your family, these sorts of things. how do we, is that just a tension that just needs to exist together? Or what's your thoughts on that? Because again, football should be at the upper echelons of the sport, quite a lucrative thing, quite a lucrative job. A lot of people are attracted to that. And even those who maybe aren't so much in the rat race to be at very top of the ladder, they may be healthy and content.

in themselves but they are struggling financially because the sector itself just doesn't provide them with what they need in that respect as well. does that, can that sit inside the dialogue that you're suggesting Alex around how we might plan and chart out our careers? Can money not serve in any sort of valid way for what we need to accept is unacceptable or what we should be pushing for, what we can contend with at the current moment?

Alex Sánchez (: 38:46

So for me, first of all, need to be an acceptance of what is the reality where you are going to be living and not complaining. As I was saying before, so who is looking, for example, in their head coaching career, looking for a stable, a safe profession?

Mark Carroll (: 39:03

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 39:03

So you're

mistaken from the very first step. So it's like, man, it's not your career. You just want to be stable, study finance and go to a bank and sit always in the same bank. No one is going to fire you, you know? And banks are not going to go down. So I mean, we are in a capitalist system, you need banks. So for sure, banks are going to be stable. So if you are looking for stability, don't come too.

Mark Carroll (: 39:06

Hmm... Hmm...

Alex Sánchez (: 39:27

sports or in this case don't come to football. This needs to be this needs to come as a first reality. Saying that it's kind of okay I will tell the risk I will go to football industry and I accept that it's unstable but obviously we are taking this decision at the same time we we want to reduce the instability. It's like okay accepting that this industry is tough how I'm able

Mark Carroll (: 39:27

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 39:54

to have the longer career. For me, you need to be the best in your profession. As I was saying before, the specialization. And you need to answer the question of how you are able to become the best specialist. For example, the concept of being professional. What defines a good professional? External behaviors, external rules that people see?

Mark Carroll (: 39:56

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 40:24

or internal approach to the way of work. And for me, something that you cannot fake. So for me, the question of the professional to that, who is the best or who is a good professional, is not based on external behaviors, but in an internal approach of how do you do your work.

Mark Carroll (: 40:30

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 40:46

in the day by day. There is a really interesting theory in psychology, this achievement goal theory, that is saying, look, people when came to sport, they are focusing two things. One, the results, the picture if you win at the end, or mastery of the process. For me, this theory is really nice in the sense of, there is many people focused in the result.

Mark Carroll (: 40:46

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 41:09

And that is why there is a lot of frustration. Result is the money you win, the trophies you win, the score of the game at the end of the game, of a football game, And there is many people focus on that. And there is a huge level of frustration when in the day by day you are not winning prizes, you are not winning good money, when you are not winning games, when you are not winning trophies at the end. Because for me,

Mark Carroll (: 41:09

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 41:33

all these rewards are going to come after a process, after this concept of mastering the process. And the final achievement, the score, the prize, could be only as a result of this process. So for me, always the approach was, man, I need to be able to master the process. In that sense, being professional is at the industry. I want to become a good professional, not because people is going to be watching me.

Mark Carroll (: 41:37

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 41:58

is because I need to be a good professional. It's an internal acceptation of that to try to achieve my goals. And who is not doing this, it's kind of, you are able to feel when you work with people, people that, yeah, respect the rules, but they respect the rules not because they believe in them. It's because they know that they're smart guys and they know, okay, these rules need to be applied. I know arriving in time, try to deliver the projects before the deadline.

Mark Carroll (: 42:06

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 42:25

Many other things, but it's not because they believe in that. mean, in the moment of they can escape, escape. In the moment they can save two pages instead of doing 12, they do 10. And if there is the possibility of doing eight, they do eight instead of 10. It's like only filling the gaps as because it's socially demanded, or your industry is demanded, for me it's not enough. I have been working with many people that they are worried like that. They are smart enough.

Mark Carroll (: 42:28

Hmm

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 42:54

to complete what is required, but they are not able to go out of the requirement. When you are with people that have internalized this concept of, I don't care what is the square, because I know that my way of working will fulfill the square and will be much bigger than the square. And this is what, for me,

when I try to decide who I want to be, related to this concept of personal branding and which kind of specialist or professional I want to be, is what I wanted to create. Because it's not going to be based on where I'm working. It doesn't matter the institution where I'm working because my rules of working are set by myself.

Mark Carroll (: 43:39

Hmm... It's more-

Alex Sánchez (: 43:40

arriving in time and

how many working time hours I'm going to put, what is the quality of the work that I'm going to be providing, is not related to what the guy in front of me is asking to me. It's me who is setting this level. And this for me, you need to do this process of creating that. Because you cannot fake that. But you need to be in this self-construction process of what you want to offer.

Mark Carroll (: 43:54

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, plus I suppose that puts you back in control as well, I suppose, then all of sudden you aren't relying on some outcome just to manifest and it might never even, it never appears, so there's no point as well. You have to look to find joy in what you do each day as well for that same reason and that might maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm quite intrigued to move towards.

Alex Sánchez (: 44:16

Absolutely.

Yeah, and I'm not going there obviously to this part of passion and commitment and for sure.

Mark Carroll (: 44:37

your more recent roles that are more now about project management. Now, maybe we can set this up somewhat by how can a coach evolve from being a coach who maybe deals with one team to then a coach who has actually moved into an operational leadership role to, mean, you've now taken up lots of roles as technical director. Obviously you're now working in Saudi Arabia with Al Balad, starting a new football club. That's such an exciting, ambitious project. How does a coach...

reach those points and I know we're the Asterix, we're not then telling other coaches that they must do that and that's their journey but how did you transition into more of a strategic direction role and given leadership there and can you maybe talk a little bit about your experiences there, how do you succeed there?

Alex Sánchez (: 45:23

Yeah,

so as I was saying, the idea was I want to become the best head coach.

studies post science, understand how to increase performance in people. Bad career, Spain, my context, head coaching in early stages when you are 20, 21, you are starting an academy. Good academies, and they still, they are playing, they are paying 200 euros, 300 euros, what, 400 euros if you're moving big teams. And then you need to do other things, no? As I said before, fitness, and I gained a lot of,

professional strategies, operations, a different way of understanding the sports context, the sports industry. So this was already with me, at same time that I was developing my professional career as a head coach, it was going well, really. I was able to get good results some seasons that you only lose one game, two games in full season. So people had some respect. This is why...

they put me in the position of teaching the welfare license in the Catalonian Federation. So I was winning this repercussion. But at the same time, I discovered that look, man, this progression is nice, but salaries.

I to be in the same club doing sporting direction, doing managing stages, opening the academy inside, know. All together maybe I'm winning a complete salary, 1,500, something like that. But at the same time, I have a personal life, you know. It's like, oh, I want to have a wife, I want to have kids, man, these conditions really. And I was watching past guys, More experienced guys, all the coaches.

All of them jumping city to city. Most of them who are in the industry knows getting divorced. Kind of situations that, I don't want to live. So I want kind of having bigger conditions where I can be stable with my wife, I can provide to my kids, and all of that. So at some point I decided like, look, I need to open. So something that is happening naturally in the industry, in my clubs, or in my career that people is offering me doing more things inside the clubs.

Maybe I need to open to, as I said before, going to other countries, exploring other kind of projects. Obviously, I can continue kind of trying to be head coach in a club, but I cannot be close to other opportunities that can help me discover better positions. And in my case, the jump to Angola, to Africa, was just a physical train.

because the lessons that I was doing or I was teaching in the WFAA license, I was teaching, what was, I'll do the translation, was training, training methodology. I was teaching sports training, was teaching physical or conditioning training. So I was doing different stuff, no? And one of my former students, he asked me, like,

Mark Carroll (: 48:04

Methodology, yeah.

Alex Sánchez (: 48:17

Alex, I have had a huge offer in this country. I'm going to go to this B team of the biggest clubs in the country. I want you on my side. Like, the specialist guy, and if I don't have knowledge for understanding how to manage the load in a micro cycle, all the conditioning in the gym, blah, blah, blah, this kind of stuff. And for me, was like, man, I can do it.

So I can do it. As I was saying, no, and this is coming, for me, one of the big things, the big concepts that head coaches need to work on is this ego development. No, people think, no, I cannot be an assistant of no one. I need to be always the head coach, the main guy. Another point is, no, I understand what is the role. I have been head coaching, been the main guy of a team, but my knowledge...

can be used in this new role. It's only understanding that my role is different. I'm not the head coach, I'm the assistant coach. So it's going to be another guy who is going to be the main leader and what I need to be doing is supporting the main leader and understanding what an assistant coach needs to be doing for increasing the performance of the squad. I accepted that was not a problem for me being assistant first time instead of being the head coach and things were really not.

really smoothly. won in three years, we won twice the national tournament, we moved to professional league as assistant coach and I discovered that.

My knowledge is for that, it's about myself accepting that I can be in a different role where I'm not taking the main decisions. I giving opinions to another guy that he's going to be taking the main decisions. Obviously you have not done this never. At the beginning it's kind of a strange situation where you have been during five, six, seven years taking the decision in the sense of 11 starter, the changes, the game system, the specific game plan.

Mark Carroll (: 49:36

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 50:05

So there is a part of combining these variables. It's like, man, I was doing that, but when I was doing that, there was not enough money. I'm able to be in another context where I have much more money, where I can live another kind of experiences. And for me, at the same time as we were speaking before, my internal narrative was always not related to external reasons. Because I understood that I needed to create an internal narrative.

Mark Carroll (: 50:18

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 50:29

And internal narrative is what do you want to be or what do you want to do? And my point was I want to be in football industry. Doesn't matter it's his head coach, assistant coach, academy director. It doesn't matter. So maybe some guys can tell me, yeah, and this is why you are not doing a career as a head coach. Because at some point my...

Mark Carroll (: 50:36

Hmm

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 50:53

answer was not being head coach but being inside the football industry. That this is what I am doing. So I mean, there is a point that you need to choose where you put your energy. And I prefer to put the energy in being inside the industry. That being head coach inside the industry. Because I understood that was too risky. So it was not deserving. the...

Mark Carroll (: 50:57

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 51:18

the choose of the pathway of only being head coach for me, the probability of being out of the industry was bigger than becoming head coach. And in that sense, this analysis of probabilities put me in the situation of I prefer not to be the head coach, not to be the main guy in the picture, but doing a long career in the industry. As I was able to survive in Angola.

Mark Carroll (: 51:28

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 51:43

a huge success, we won a lot, and personal reasons brought me to Oman, Middle East, where my position from an assistant coach in Angola, I became, and they started to come for me the experiences of management, pure management. I moved from Angola, assistant, high performance football, pure technical football, to open a private academy in Middle East.

While my goal was an absolutely other cat thing. In Oman, my main goal was looking for sponsors, management, putting together coaches, education, creating an instructor. So now I'm opening a football club, but in Oman I was opening only an academy. No senior team, only talent development, and not high performance. On my case, Oman, it's a really...

Mark Carroll (: 52:08

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 52:30

kind of a small industry in terms of performance, if we speak in this way. Obviously there's a lot of families that they want to have their kids training, but not with a purpose of there is a big league, a big national team or whatever. World most kind of an academy, you know where people go and play. And in that sense, my role was opening the academy, was a foundation, was a new academy and I opened everything. And my role was more like my partner was a no money guy, no background, no knowledge, nothing was like a no

Mark Carroll (: 52:46

Yeah, yeah.

Alex Sánchez (: 52:58

guy with a dream that having his own academy and watching charge and this is what brought me where I was able to put all my abilities won in the fitness industry this is what I use in Oman

And then when I moved to Madrid, was the combination of everything. It this opportunity of teaching that for me was natural context, obviously bachelor, master's teaching in the National Federation in Catalonia. So I had this background experience. It was a natural kind of going inside university. It was really nice. And when Real Madrid approached me and asked me for developing this project of the master, for me it was like, man, what I'm going to be doing is a master that I needed in my career.

Mark Carroll (: 53:28

Hmm.

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 53:40

a master

that combines the training, the high performance, the things that are happening in the technical field, plus the management side. You know, the how to manage an academy, how to manage a football club, how to be involved in a professional club. Because at that time, my discovery after 12 years in the industry was inside the clubs, there is a need, because there is a lack of this knowledge of people.

Mark Carroll (: 53:54

Thank

Could I just, I was wanting to ask you, cause like when you chart out where things went for you and how that then came about that you then started to work under the Madrid partnership and the masters being the program director at the Universidad de Europea. Like I couldn't imagine you being equipped to have done that if you'd concentrated fully on the sort of route that people would have expected of a football coach. Like it sounds like you created such a...

a niche for yourself, getting really, really good in developing a really tight expertise in terms of like we are educational back and then going and doing the roles that perhaps people might overlook because they're so focused on the head coach, head coach, head coach. And it seems like you've amalgamated those experiences together. Now all of a sudden, you've accrued the social capital that's then you can cash back in to then actually make yourself be so attractive in a way that's so different from other people.

It just seems to really show the power of how we can really separate ourselves. While still, I know it's a philosophical argument about while still being in touch with our internal dialogue of what we want to be in and not being too taken hostage by what the external is telling us we should do and what we need to have at certain points of our career. It seems like the patience that you've showed, Alex has actually paid off for that as a bit of a lesson, I suppose, for other people to a point.

Alex Sánchez (: 55:30

Look,

if we are in kind of this old conversation that imagine that you and me we have now 65 years old, close to die thinking, when we want to live for these young people, imagine that we have this kind of conversation nowadays if I need to say something is patient.

Mark Carroll (: 55:44

you

Alex Sánchez (: 55:46

For me, the biggest mistake I have had when I was really young, like 15, 16, 17, 18, 20 years old, and I removed from the question from some life learning that I have, if I need to say to the young guys, and I tell them, for example, when I'm teaching in the MBA or in my master's, be patient. That's it, be patient. At the end, things will arrive if they need to arrive. And at the same time, with this being patient, is accept what life is going to be providing.

Mark Carroll (: 56:14

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 56:14

So,

because yeah, I totally agree with what we are saying. So, think that this balance from positions, the moving from one position to another, make me put my professional career in a position that I was able to use with this different background and some different points in the, I don't know how to say in English, but in these stages that they are coming later.

Mark Carroll (: 56:19

And that's counter, isn't it, Alex?

Alex Sánchez (: 56:38

You know, it's like the master, for example, is a creation of the resume, the putting together 12 years of experience. Was like, what I have been living, what I have been learning in the industry, in the industry that I have been coach, assistant, physical manager, academy director, I have learned that is missing this, this, this, and this in the football clubs. So as this is missing, I'm going to create a program that fulfill these goals.

Mark Carroll (: 56:38

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 57:04

And now with the master,

I want, I increase my network, I want knowledge, I have been with so amazing people, some specialist of different areas where I didn't have specific knowledge. I don't know, maybe sporting laws, for example, as now thinking, or project development, because in my master, I brought some project development guys much older than me. I have been speaking to them, I have been in lunch with them, in dinners with them, and when the opportunity is coming to Saudi Arabia to open,

club arise obviously had my background. I opened a master, I opened an academy, I was in the opening of a gym many years ago. I have this background but at the same time the master put me in the position of being surrounded by people that have been developing this kind of project all together says to myself I'm grateful.

Mark Carroll (: 57:42

Hmm.

Can I ask a question there as well? Because I'm quite interested to know and learn a bit more about the real strong sort of international outlook that I've always felt you've had. And obviously I was fortunate enough to spend a bit of time with yourself, Alex, at the university and getting in contact with some of the students and the staff at Rear Madrid. But something that was so clear to me was just how impoverished I felt by comparison from a cultural upbringing that is...

that isn't global. I think the British approach often isn't really to travel outside of leisure. It always tends to be fairly closed house. But it just seemed such a strength because when I interacted with yourself and the students, they just seemed so much more durable people and so much more flexible people in these sort of ways. And I just wonder if we're talking about within the football sector, but it might extend to the sporting sector.

It's a global market nowadays, so it's not just a local market. Is that something that you've, how have you carried that with you if you have at all? But what's the feeling around that? It just seems like such a strength and it's so obvious when you lack it and you see people that have it. Which is why I'm quite curious about your perspective on that sort of stuff.

Alex Sánchez (: 59:01

So

in the sense of being able, like with many different kubectl tools.

Mark Carroll (: 59:06

Yeah, yeah to a point or just you know the fact that you went and worked in different countries, you've interacted with different people with the same international outlook that sort of thing.

Alex Sánchez (: 59:11

Yeah, I

think that this is kind of a skill, really typical skill that people like to put in the CD, but not many people is strong in putting their kind in the real life.

Mark Carroll (: 59:28

yeah.

Alex Sánchez (: 59:29

So I think that is for sure is one of the threads. I totally agree. I don't know how to explain exactly. I'm going to try. obviously I I had a personal interest on trying to discover how big the world was in terms of cultural development. And this is my personal interest. So an example of that, for example, I'm a Spanish guy, European guy.

I never had interest in going to the USA. Never. Why? Because I felt that in terms of civilization, in terms of culture, USA and Europe were so close that had no interest for me. And always I have been traveling to contexts and places that they are so different to me.

Mark Carroll (: 59:59

Mmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:00:19

Because I have this kind of natural personal interest. My first important trips with 2021 were to South America, Latin America, Uruguay. Some people will say, but this is very close to Spain because they speak Spanish. I think it's that note. I think we are closer between Portuguese, Italian, French guys because we are European. So that sense is bigger, the European culture, that the culture that we are sharing with Latin America.

where there is another way of being, another government system, history, I think, in terms of common history. And yeah, I realized that, yeah, when my trips were through Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, I feel more attached with an Italian guy than with a guy of Uruguay, Argentina, in that sense. I don't know if I have some for the people that what I lived was like this.

Mark Carroll (: 1:00:42

you

Alex Sánchez (: 1:01:09

After Latin America, my next trips were to always have a personal interest in Africa, but I started for Asia and Middle East and I started to travel to Asia and Middle East. India was an amazing discovery for me, I spent weeks there and was fascinated. I had no interest for going, for example, to Germany. I had not been in Germany or to the Netherlands. I had been once in Amsterdam or twice in Amsterdam, but only the city.

Mark Carroll (: 1:01:22

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:01:34

had no interest for me because I was feeling that we were so close. I prefer to go to India. While many people say, no, India is shit, this organization is blah blah. But for me was like personal discovery of the culture, how a civilization is going there, the civilizatory difference. And for example, I had this dream of going to Africa and I was able to live this dream at the same time that I was working in the professional industry. And I lived.

Mark Carroll (: 1:01:38

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 1:01:56

for many years, discovering

how people live there, they use the culture, the traditions, have religion, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I moved to Middle East, that I was looking for that for living in Middle East at the same time. And obviously, with all of that, need to say, I discovered one thing, traveling is not open the mind of no one. This is a lie. When people say, no, travel around, open the mind of people. No, no, no. I have been traveling around, I have been living in many countries and many.

Mark Carroll (: 1:02:06

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:02:27

What opens the mind of people is the attitude of the people to open the mind. When you travel, the people that are open-minded, and I consider myself open-minded, so this is why I'm able to travel abroad and live and be in other countries, is because I'm open-minded and I'm able to adapt to different cultures. At the same time that I was traveling, discovered that people that are not open-minded, when they travel, traveling...

Mark Carroll (: 1:02:41

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 1:02:54

they are reinforcing their close-minded. So I have been in Africa with people that they were open-minded and we enjoyed Africa together. And for example, in my group of friends, we are people that after 10 years in Angola, we continue to have a good relationship. For example, we spent Christmas together with our sons, with our daughters together from 10 years ago because we love Africa.

Mark Carroll (: 1:02:58

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:03:20

We love being there, we love the chaos, we love the disorganization. And through all these African struggling, we create a huge relationship because we love that time because for European guys in Angola, the experience was amazing. But at the same time, at that period of time, I a short time with people that they were landing in Africa saying, Africa is shit. And after two years, they went back home saying, Africa is shit. And during these two years,

Mark Carroll (: 1:03:20

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:03:48

The experience was shit. And they were living with us. They were coming from the same country or from the same region. They were Europeans. They work in the same projects. They were in the same industries. They were, for example, in football, in my case. And they were in the same city. Was always the same, only the same. And for example, now I'm in Middle East. I love Middle East. I love Oman. I love Emirates. I love Qatar. I love Saudi Arabia.

Mark Carroll (: 1:03:54

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:04:14

And at the same time, in the same industry, in the same region, I have people coming from Europe telling me Saudi Arabia is shit, Oman is shit, Qatar is shit. The only difference is not the region itself, are not the cultural difference, it's the mental approach of people going to these kind of experiences. You can be open-minded, you can accept that we all of us, we are human beings and it's theoretical.

Mark Carroll (: 1:04:24

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:04:40

development of the regions put us in different eventual situations and you are saying that and you try to learn why in Europe things happen like this and why Middle East things happen like that. no, you can come with a close-minded thinking that look, Europe in this case, for example, the mainstream approach is Europe is the best and all what is happening out of Europe is shit

For me it's so simplistic. And this is what makes sometimes for some people some experiences so difficult to understand. And for me, in my case, being open-minded that is trying to understand how people live in other regions

Mark Carroll (: 1:05:03

Hmm

Alex Sánchez (: 1:05:19

I have an approach to culture and or to civilizations that I want to understand.

Mark Carroll (: 1:05:24

I think point you made there Alex was that it's not transactional to be open minded isn't transactional. It's not like buy a plane ticket and you'll come back necessarily a different person. Maybe we need to work on ourselves at home first and that has to then be, it's more of a, you you could go abroad and not necessarily get the benefit you want to get. And it's probably because you're carrying still yourself abroad and it's not necessarily that.

the move abroad is going to change you as an individual. it's just, an interesting perspective the way you kind of, the way you look at that is quite different actually in a way. It's quite refreshing too. So, because we are, that is the general narrative that go abroad, come back open-minded. it's like, and I'd probably say that actually to me empowers coaches to recognize that you can find new ways of, a new perspective where you're currently at as well, because some people are restricted in their ability to travel as well. can still develop.

a wider perspective on things at home because it's not based on where you go, but how you are and how you act, isn't it? It's a mentality. So I think that's, I mean, I see that even someone that delivers coach education, I still have people that come out of courses that you do see as being more about their own personal monologue and they're just looking for further validation of an already fairly cemented view on things. it's like, we shouldn't waste time here then. It should maybe just.

Either you just chat to yourself in an empty room or you actually come with the intention to want to learn. And in that case, it shouldn't matter where you go. You're gonna have opportunity that's quite ripe, I suppose, regardless. So thanks so much. Alex, I'm conscious of our time as well. So if I can challenge you here, and maybe give us just as a means of summarizing some of the things we've spoken about from your experiences to date, then if you were to give like coaches that are listening.

free kind of coach hats for their career or for their development, what would be the two or three main learning points that you would like to give, maybe simply just to summarize the conversation that listeners can maybe hold on to.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:07:26

Look, yesterday I had a conversation with my coaches here. I have Saudi coaches. One of our goals is trying to bet on the national talent.

have a very long discussion of what is talent. But in any case, we want to push in terms of not only players but technical staff. Because here in Saudi, really the boards of the big clubs are not thinking in Saudi coaches. And we were speaking about this specifically to them, in my case it's to them because I want them better. First point, what is the main goal of a head coach?

For me, the main goal of a head coach is this English word that I like a lot and we don't have in Spanish and I don't like how it sounds. That is empowering people. The point that coaches or if there are many coaches listening to us now is that the question need to be have you the tools to empower people around you?

This is what you need to ask yourself. So people is better when you are there. And obviously if we go specifically to a changing room to a squad, it's like, do you know how to make these 25 individuals better? What is needed for that? Maybe, and we are going to the second pillar, that is knowledge, is learning.

Maybe some coaches are going to go. We are thinking we are not in the dictatorship of the tactical. We are now in a very tactical football where coaches love this sentence of the team plays as I wanted to as I have been working during all week. For me, this is the sentence is expressing the defeat of the goal of a coach. The team need to be

playing in a way that is better than you were expecting. And this is empowering people. Empowering people is bringing people to a position

where they are able to do things that neither you and them, they imagine that they can beat them. And this can be done through a training process. And nowadays I'm tired of this sentence of, we lose, but I'm happy because the team did what we were practicing.

Or at the same, I'm happy we win because the team put what we were practicing. For me, the work of our coach is much bigger than that. It's not this sentence of the coaches for me is about based on repetition. It's like, okay, I'm going to be practicing this during the week. And if these guys are able to repeat what we have been practicing during the week, I'm happy. It's like, no, man, we are open systems. It means the player can be doing much more things that I'm able to imagine.

Mark Carroll (: 1:10:05

Hmm.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:10:09

This needs to be there. And for sure, first of all, coaches, you need to imagine that. You need to be able to empower coaches, players in this direction. Not only players, because you are the leader of technical staff. means you are able to empower technical staff and players. You are able to create this context where they feel that they can propose things that they are huge, that they are big.

much bigger than you are able to think. This is only coming through knowledge. It means that you need to be learning. And this knowledge needs to be multidisciplinary knowledge in the sense of it's not only about technique and tactics.

It's about human relations, it's about psychology, it's about sharing time, it's about experiences because head coaches is not only what's happening in the training process but what's happening out. If you are doing activities, if you are doing trips, stages, if you are traveling in and out because you are in a big team, you need to be picking flights and you are spending a lot of time together. So in that sense, your knowledge needs to be multidisciplinar in the sense of I need to be able to approach the guy.

Mark Carroll (: 1:11:14

you

Alex Sánchez (: 1:11:16

much bigger than only technical tactical analysis of what they are doing because at the end football is kind of a cultural expression. mean if I have Brazilian guys in my team how I'm able to help Brazilians that are absolutely different of having Saudi guys or having

East European, East guys coming from Russia, Slovenia, Slovakia, or these kind of places. This for me will be the three pillars. Empower, prepare yourself through knowledge and multidisciplinary knowledge based on football is about cultural approach, is human expression.

Mark Carroll (: 1:11:54

Absolutely fantastic. Thanks so much Alex for sparing your time. I you're such a busy person. So it's been such a terrific conversation. And yeah, we'll call it there. For those that are listening guys, I hope that you found that conversation. It's certainly just as I found it. And yeah, we'll see you next time.

Alex Sánchez (: 1:12:13

Thank you, thank you very much.